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glock 19 the most reliable hand gun ever

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  • glock 19 the most reliable hand gun ever


    May I recommend a revolver.

    Also I like to recommend that we start posting the comic were talking about at the start of each thread just so we can keep track better.
    Jennie Breeden: "Fuck on a fuck stick!"
    Please visit my Deviant Art http://dragonswordcannon.deviantart.com/

    Please click on the dragon thank you.

  • #2
    Sure, you can recommend a revolver. Interesting problem that revolvers can have that automatics can't: the propellant fails to ignite and the bullet goes halfway down the barrel and sticks. If you try to fire again, the gun will explode in your hand.

    A .357 Magnum revolver gives you six very scary shots. With that, from across-the-room ranges, I can blow six holes in the ceiling. A .22LR target pistol gives you 10 much less powerful shots. With that, from across-the-road ranges, I can blow holes in ten muggers' or would-be-rapists' brains. Which is the more effective weapon? Browning 9mm HP Mk3, for me, because I shoot slightly tighter groups with it than with the Colt .45ACP 1911A1. Not much tighter, but 13 9x99mm rounds into a 6-inch group is a lot better than 8 .45ACP into a 7-inch group. I know the Beretta 92's the more popular model and has a 15rd magazine but I fell out with Beretta and, really, if you're going to need the 14th and 15th rounds before you get a chance to reload you're not going to get the chance to use the 12th round.

    If you want short- to medium-range reliability, it's really hard to beat a ... lemme look it up ... AK102, AK105, AK107 and AK108. Apart from the accuracy of a two-handed weapon with a shoulder stock and the magazine size, you also get the advantage with the 102 and 108 that 5.56x45mm blows holes the size of aubergines in bad guys and, at short (like under 80 metres aka under 260 feet) ranges it makes multiple wound tracks with multiple exit wounds rather than doing what a .44 Magnum FMJ ball round would do, which is carry on in a straight line through the intruder, three interior walls and your neighbour's kid.

    Google's being an arse about showing me gun shops, but I've found one selling some rifles in the $1000 - $1800 range ... and H&K carbines for $3300 in 5.56x45mm and $3800 in 7.62x51mm. Same shop, H&K pistols, $900 - $1350, and other brands' pistols $400 - $850 for a .45, $500 - $1150 for a 9mm.

    Remington shotguns $343 - $1078, Mossbergs $240 - $440. Considering that a 12ga is an 18.5mm aka .73 calibre, so it's got a lot of scare value if you want to point it and tell someone to **** off (which you do, of course, really, as you fervently hope not to have to shoot him ... or at least that's what you'll tell the police afterwards) and can put out an ounce of supersonic lead at a time, making 11 holes right through the bad guy with #1 shot or 20 holes as far as the other side of his ribcage with #3, either of which will thoroughly **** him up. In terms of bad-guy-stoppage per dollar, that's probably the leader. A 7.62x51mm does let you pick off would-be-rapists at 800m if you're that flaming good, but when are you going to get the chance and do you really want to spend the extra three grand for that H&K just in case?
    When I was fifteen, my father thought I knew nothing. When I was twenty-five, I was amazed by how little he thought I'd learned in such a long time.

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    • #3
      the range dude, does NOT know how to effectively explain himself...

      Decent technique that promotes proper function is neither complicated nor that involved to explain, (in person). trying to explain it in writing, over the net, and without seeing exactly what the new shooter is doing, both right and wrong, is much more difficult.

      Plus the whole "Most reliable" thing is such an over-generalization. If the gun doesn't fit the shooter, it doesn't matter how reliable/comfortable/anything it is in the hands of anyone else...

      will now slink back to my little corner and be quiet. before the real gun-geekiness comes out.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by sableagle View Post
        Sure, you can recommend a revolver. Interesting problem that revolvers can have that automatics can't: the propellant fails to ignite and the bullet goes halfway down the barrel and sticks. If you try to fire again, the gun will explode in your hand.
        That sounds like a problem with the propellant not the gun.
        Jennie Breeden: "Fuck on a fuck stick!"
        Please visit my Deviant Art http://dragonswordcannon.deviantart.com/

        Please click on the dragon thank you.

        Comment


        • #5
          Well, yeah, it is, but if that happens with a recoil- or gas-operated weapon (semi-automatic pistol, smg or assault rifle) the action won't cycle and the next round won't feed. It's still a fucked gun you can't use until you drill the damn bullet out, but it's stopped. With a revolver, if you're under pressure and don't notice the failure, you can cycle the action and fire the next bullet up the stuck bullet's arse.

          Doesn't happen often. More likely with cheapest available bulk ammo.
          When I was fifteen, my father thought I knew nothing. When I was twenty-five, I was amazed by how little he thought I'd learned in such a long time.

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          • #6
            If you don't see your bullet hit, don't pull the trigger again. Kinda a good idea for any firearm. Of course, that's more like an advertisement for not getting cheap ammo. Something I kinda feel is a good PSA anyway because it's kinda like getting a real cheap parachute without inspecting it. You don't want to find out when your life depends on it why it's cheap.

            Oh and you COULD get a revolver that shoots .45 LC rounds(the Judge) and load .410 shot shells and have a nice little hand held shottie. If that fails to send the round down range, dump the barrel.

            Me personally, I prefer the .45 1911 A1. Of course I am pretty well versed in it, and it's inherent flaws. I also like only having 9 rounds(one in the pipe). It means I have to count my shots. 13 rounds, I found myself not counting and finding myself at slide lock not reaching for my next clip. And really, 8 rounds should do unless you're in a movie firefight.

            My girlfriend uses a .357 Mag S&W J-frame. She loads it with .38SP rounds because the extra weight of the 357 weapon helps stabilize it for the .38 rounds. She also likes that the S&W has a nice trigger pull double action, it's "hammerless" so nothing to get snagged. And of course, she likes the fact that there are some real nice pretty grips for it lol. She tried a few .380's but couldn't operate the slide. So a double action revolver was the best option for her.
            Last edited by Tommycat; 12-04-2012, 06:00 PM.

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            • #7
              Ah, yes, the other way to get the bullet out of the barrel. Six blanks ought to shift it without adding any lead. Of course, then you have a shitty mass of part-burned powder choking it up, but that's easy enough to clean out.
              Originally posted by Tommycat View Post
              If you don't see your bullet hit, don't pull the trigger again.
              When I was fifteen, my father thought I knew nothing. When I was twenty-five, I was amazed by how little he thought I'd learned in such a long time.

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              • #8
                Oh yeah, forgot... should have said:

                Unless you're in a movie fight, OR happen to be in a war zone(in which case, might I suggest bringing an M1A1 Abrams which also has the added advantage of bringing you AND some friends along).


                Though I will tend to agree with you on the shottie being a more effective home defense weapon. It's a little hard for a woman to carry one of them in her purse(maybe my ex wife's purse, that thing seemed to have no bottom). But then if you have kids, and you leave the shottie in your locked room, with a lock on it(because we know kids WILL find a way into the room), will you be able to get to the shottie in an emergency situation. get the lock off, and then you have that whole needing two hands thing. Open a door with a shottie, and you lose control of the barrel(it's much harder to maintain control at least). You have to watch out around corners, because the barrel is much further out there. Gives the bad guy more barrel to grip to take away from you(Push barrel aside, Grab stock. Smack your head with the stock a few times, and then your baddie has a shotgun to blow a hole in you). A shottie is harder to bring to bear on your target from a lowered position. A small double action revolver is ready, easy to aim in an emergency, and allows one free hand to open doors, or stay on the line with the police(which you should be if there is an invader in your house). It's also small and light enough to have on your person at all times. Which means that you can maintain control of it without having it locked in a room to prevent kids from getting to it.
                Last edited by Tommycat; 12-04-2012, 10:22 PM. Reason: Rather than double posting.

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                • #9
                  Pistols' advantages as carry weapons are pretty obvious, yes. For home defence, if you do have kids, you may need to get to them. If you don't, why would you be leaving the room? Let the b_____d walk into your sights.

                  Ideally, there'd be two of you. One can be on the 'phone and holding a pistol and the other can be holding the Maker Of Bloody Messes two-handed, and anyone who tries to disarm one of you is going to be doing so in the sights of the other. Of course you can't guarantee to always have a partner there, especially if you're single.

                  I'm not sure about the ease of taking a gun off someone. A pistol held one-handed isn't all that securely held, and a little training in spear-fighting will quickly teach you ways to turn "push barrel aside" into "get muzzle in crotch." Probably the best style for going round corners and keeping hold of the gun is a bullpup. They've always got issues with ambidextrous use, but there's a lot less overall length to grab and use for leverage and it doesn't stick as far out from your shoulder. With a little practice, going round corners with your weapon pointing where you're looking and not sticking it past the corner before you can see isn't that hard. It's stairs that are a 'mare. There just isn't a safe way up or down stairs. I'd almost rather jump out of the window and smash my way in below. This ugly lump has a 518mm barrel in a 780mm weapon, compared to the 508mm in 1006mm of the M16A2. That's 226mm aka 8.9 inches less sticking out in front of you. M16A2: 3.77kg. L86A2: 7.3kg, but that 900mm barrel gives it some reach. Then there's the OMFGheavy Australian bullpup. 9.9kg. Jesus. If you don't fancy the SA80 family much, Austrian Steyr are bullpups too.
                  When I was fifteen, my father thought I knew nothing. When I was twenty-five, I was amazed by how little he thought I'd learned in such a long time.

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                  • #10
                    For home defense the ideal is to stay put in a "safe" room. Ideally there'd never be an intruder. If there's 2 of you, then one can be holding a .50 cal BMG for all it matters. You have the other on the phone with the police. For home defense, the rules are simple(as far as I am concerned). 1) Get you and your family to a safe room if you cannot escape. 2) once in that safe room, Call the emergency number(911 in the US 999 in the UK I believe). 3) Wait for the authorities with your weapon in a ready position(if you are in the UK you likely won't have a firearm but large bludgeoning objects are still weapons).

                    You should teach your children to head to the safe room in the event they cannot find you. I'd still suggest having a handgun THAT YOU PRACTICE WITH REGULARLY as well as a shottie, as you don't want to have to contemplate pulling the trigger because little Timmy may be in the spread of shot... you shouldn't be in that situation, and it's exceptionally rare, but you don't want to be responsible for the child being killed by either your action nor inaction.

                    HOLY HECK 9.9KG!!! Even the old M14 was lighter than that. At that kind of weight, go with the Keltec KSG(if you can get one) and have a bullpup shottie with 15 rounds. Or you could go with the more expensive, more available, and in my view better looking UTS-15.
                    Last edited by Tommycat; 12-05-2012, 04:57 PM.

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                    • #11
                      If you can't hit a target with a .357, you need to be using a weapon which you can control. It's a poor craftsman who blames his tools. I recently had a good conversation on shotgun vs. handgun on the facebook post, and it really highlights different needs met by different firearms. I live in an old farmhouse where you can't GET a shotgun down the hallway sideways. Now, with proper technique, this isn't a problem, but a handgun is still a better option for going around corners. However, in any case you have to worry about bullet carry. Shot and washers will put quite a whammy on an intruder, and are much less likely to penetrate your walls. Someone also brought up compressed powder rounds, which will penetrate flesh but will break on most wall surfaces. I'd never heard of it, myself.

                      This brings me to my judge. I adore my judge. It's not a *great* .45, to be honest. The barrel is too short. But I can't imagine a better home-defense pistol when loaded with a good load of shot. When that thing barks, it WILL wake the neighbours. I went on youtube to look for good videos, but I keep finding yahoos who don't have any gun safety. So I'll pick up some different kinds of shot next time I head to the store and post the results.
                      Why gentlemen, I am positively quaking in my sexy boots.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Dominic View Post
                        If you can't hit a target with a .357, you need to be using a weapon which you can control. It's a poor craftsman who blames his tools.
                        Umm ... make up your mind? Is it the wrong gun for me or not?

                        Actually, I *could* hit the target with that thing. Single-action, I made a figure-8 hole with my first two shots from 10m. The problem is that it's a bit of a slow job. Double-action, I found it to be useless to me. I never said it was useless. I've always said that whatever gun most reliably lets you hit the bad guy before he can hit you is the most effective gun for you. If you can shoot like The Man With No Name with that thing, then it's a way more effective weapon in your hands than any kind of pistol in mine. For me, though, it's only useful for plinking really big rusty old cans or against an intruder at a range that allows me to aim by hooking the foresight behind his front teeth. So, yes, if I'm choosing a handgun for myself I'm going to choose a 9mm semi-auto with which I can put three or four holes in someone 10m away faster than he can drop the knife.

                        For the corners, shotguns tend to be what? 18" minimum barrel length, plus maybe another foot of grip and stock? 30" long, or 914.4mm? That's longer than a bullpup rifle and a lot of shotguns will have longer barrels than that, for another 6" or so.

                        On guns.ru's L85 page you can see someone standing to aim one.



                        His left elbow is resting on the ammo pouch on his webbing belt. That means his left hand's closer to his face than it would be with a pistol. Imagine him holding a revolver with a 6"-barrel in that left hand, and the muzzle's not much further back, is it?

                        (That last clip, two horses too many, is a good illustration of why you should hit him TWICE.)
                        When I was fifteen, my father thought I knew nothing. When I was twenty-five, I was amazed by how little he thought I'd learned in such a long time.

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                        • #13
                          heh That's why my GF loads .38 SP rather than 357 mag shells. The heavier frame also helps reduce the kick of the .38 as well. But really, no matter what, not every firearm is right for every person. There is no one perfect firearm. For me the Colt 1911 .45ACP is a great handgun. For others, they can go with the .50 Desert Eagle(saw a tiny little woman shooting one of those, and about fell out). And for some a nice little .22 is all they need or want(and brass is cheaper for those too lol). It's always about what works for you. And for carry, it's about what you would feel comfortable having attached to you at all times(oh sure that .50 revolver looks nice and scary, but have that strapped to your side all day and you'll be begging to take it off at the end of the day)

                          not gonna deny that a bullpup is great for close quarters. sadly in the US we have to have rifles no shorter than 26"

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                          • #14
                            not gonna deny that a bullpup is great for close quarters. sadly in the US we have to have rifles no shorter than 26"
                            Um, untill fairly recently most bullpups even military bound designs were over that length. the uber common "Cricket" and "Chipmunk" trainer rifles are over the 26" minimum and shorter than even the carbine version of the L85 (which is just short of 28"), the one in the pic above is a little over 30" OAL.

                            it wasn't untill the P90 and all the "Personal Defense Weapon" copy cats came along that bullpup rifles started being chopped to SMG lengths

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Tommycat View Post
                              heh That's why my GF loads .38 SP rather than 357 mag shells. ... For others, they can go with the .50 Desert Eagle.
                              I've been wondering about that thing and its smaller sisters.

                              Just how much power does it take to cycle one of those? It's gas-operated, which may be very significant, but could you load your own ammo and use a .44Mag DE as a heavy .45 or a .357Mag DE as a heavy 9mm? You'd lose mag capacity relative to a normal 9mm, but you'd gain some stability and potentially a lot of barrel length. Alternatively, could you load really heavy .44 bullets and a slightly light charge into the .44Mag cases for the equivalent of the .22SSS, and get a 12" barrel with a muzzle brake that just happens to diffuse the muzzle noise too? If you're going to use it indoors to shoot at intruders, you want to be able to hear hostiles and/or friendlies moving around after you shoot the first bad guy, which with the normal ammo for that thing you won't be *BANG*EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
                              When I was fifteen, my father thought I knew nothing. When I was twenty-five, I was amazed by how little he thought I'd learned in such a long time.

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